School Business Matters

[This transcript is for ASBO International’s School Business Matters podcast episode, “Unpacking the Current Administration’s Views on ESSA,” featuring ASBO International Executive Director John Musso and Department of Education Acting Assistant Secretary for Elementary and Secondary Education Jason Botel.]
 
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John Musso: How is the Department [of Education] going to work toward quality options for all, while maintaining support for public schools?

Jason Botel: This is something, of course, we think about every single day.
 
John Musso: Hello, and welcome to ASBO Radio. I am John Musso. Today, we have with us guest, Jason Botel. Jason, welcome and thank you very much for doing this.

Well, let's get right into the first question. Your administration has been off to a really busy start with implementation of ESSA. Could you talk a little bit more about what excites you in the law and then, next of all, how does it align with the beliefs of your administration?

Jason Botel: I'm very excited to be in this role at this moment in time, uh, in terms of implementing ESSA. ESSA really is a great step, in terms of putting states and local districts in the driver's seat. We do feel here at the [Education] Department, Secretary DeVos and I, and our team here, we feel very strongly that people who are closest to students are best equipped to make decisions for their education and that, of course, starts with parents, as well as teachers and school principals, and that kind of thing.

Uh, No Child Left Behind was, uh, a great step in the right direction, I think, for our country in terms of education, but over time I think what people realized is that it involved a lot of top-down decisions from the federal government, in terms of how education was implemented throughout the country and ultimately that's not going to be how you get the best achievement. So, ESSA really does put a lot more decision-making power in the hands of state and local leaders, and that very much aligns with the approach we're trying to take in terms of improving education and student outcomes across the country.

John Musso: So, I would assume when we talk about aligning with the beliefs of the administration one of them is, uh, getting back to local control.

Jason Botel: Yes, absolutely. Now, it's also important to point out that ESSA has some very important requirements of all states. And, one of the things, as you know, that we're spending a lot of time doing right now in my Office of Elementary and Secondary Education is reviewing state, consolidated state plans—the plans that states have submitted that lay out how they're going to implement education, what their accountability systems are going to be, how they're going to allocate federal funding, and things like that. And they have a lot of autonomy, a lot of flexibility that ESSA provides and, again, we think that that has a potential to lead to even better outcomes and, and, more equity for historically underserved student populations.

At the same time, there are pretty specific requirements in the law, and so what, uh, we in my office are doing is looking at each plan and making sure it does meet all the statutory and regulatory requirements.

John Musso: Great. Jason, talk to us a little bit about the Department's approach leading up to the ESSA state plan review process and why such an approach was applied.

Jason Botel: Well, it's, it's a great question and the statute does have some specific parameters about how we go about the review process. For instance, the statute requires a peer review process, so that's been a part of our process and we've now completed peer review on all of the plans for all 50 states, as well as D.C. and Puerto Rico. There's also a departmental review component and that's where we're really taking the time to try to be helpful to states, give them feedback that will help them ensure that their plans and their practices will be in compliance with statutory and regulatory requirements.

John Musso: Let's go to the question of resources, Jason, because I talk about resources at the state, local, and federal levels. How do you see those resources being allocated?

Jason Botel: Of course, we have our federal title programs and ESSA keeps those pretty much intact. There are some changes here and there, but a big part of our job here at the Department is to allocate resources to states and districts and schools, to make sure that students, particularly historically underserved students have resources they need to, to achieve at higher levels and close opportunity and achievement gaps, and to make sure that all the different grant programs that Congress has, has created in response to the needs of students in school and districts and states that those resources are being allocated appropriately.

In these state plans that I've been talking about, states are committing to certain processes for identifying when certain schools need more resources, need what's called in the law “comprehensive support” or “targeted support,” when certain student subgroups are not being educated to the level that they need to be equitably, um, in individual schools or across the state. There is in ESSA, a “weighted student funding pilot program.” We're actually in the process now of kind of designing that within the parameters of the statute—and that allows up to 50 local education agencies across the country to indicate that they're interested in implementing, uh, a weighted student funding program.

And this is a way to really be thoughtful about how resources are allocated, local, state, and federal. So, it's an opportunity to say we know that some students given their individual needs might have needs and challenges that require more resources, and so how do we allocate funding in a way that responds to that. And so, of course, districts and states now if they want to can allow for local and state funding to flow in that kind of way and, again, some places do. One of the challenges has been, given all the requirements around federal funding, how do you do that, and I think what the provision in ESSA seeks to do is allow some flexibility that if an LEA says, you know, we want to be able to allocate federal funding in this way to consolidate federal funding and allocate it that way and still meet the needs, the requirements of that federal funding that, that's in the law, you know, that they can do that.

And so, we're looking forward to working with a bunch of local education agencies to take that kind of approach.

John Musso: Great. Now, here's a question that I, I get asked, uh, frequently. So, beyond ESSA or in addition to ESSA, how is the Department going to work toward quality options for all, while maintaining support for public schools?

Jason Botel: This is something, of course, we think about every single day. We know that we have millions and millions of children in public schools, as well as in, in other kinds of schools. And within our public school systems there's a great deal of diversity of, of school model. Lots of students go to traditional public schools, neighborhood public schools. Increasingly there are schools of choice, be they public magnet schools, public charter schools, other kinds of schools, of course, given technological advancement there are opportunities for, uh, course selection, for students to take courses that may not be offered physically in their school, but are offered maybe at, at another school in their district or online in, in some other locale.

So, there's a lot of opportunity right now and, uh, Secretary DeVos I think has been very vocal about her support for innovation. Uh, she on her “Rethink Schools,” Rethink Education Tour, and the back-to-school period in September, visited a lot of different schools that are doing a lot of different things, uh, many public schools. You know, we wanna make sure that every child has high-quality educational options and for many students they're going to find that in the offering of public school systems. We are, of course, encouraging states and local districts to offer as many opportunities as possible in their public school systems. Some students, of course, have for a long time and will continue to find opportunities in, in private schools as well.

What's most important to us is that every student receives a great education for that student. We know that different students have different needs. We wanna make sure that parents have different options so that they can find really the best model for their child.

John Musso: And, Jason, as you know, ASBO International likes to, to work with the Department, so that we can, uh, help the Department, as well as our members help the kids in the classroom and carrying out the intent of, of the laws. So, I ask you, what role can ASBO International and other organizations play in this effort?

Jason Botel: I think that the role of, of organizations like yours and your members right now is more critical than ever. ESSA, I think to its credit, does look quite a bit at what kind of access to resources students have, what kind of access to teachers and teachers who are effective, teachers who have been credentialed in the areas in which they're teaching, to what extent do students have access to, to those resources, including the human resources. And, obviously, there's a, a critical role that ASBO and ASBO's members play there. There's also something I haven't mentioned yet, which I think is very important to mention, I think gets to your question: there is a new requirement in ESSA around report cards.

Now, under No Child Left Behind there were requirements that every state publish a report card for every public school in that state, and ESSA continues that and actually adds to some of the requirements in terms of what goes into those report cards. One of the things, and I think this is particularly important for, for your membership, is the “per-pupil expenditure” of each school. And I think this is going to be a challenge. I've certainly heard this from state education leaders, as well as local education leaders. In fact, recognizing that it's a challenge to report that data, to generate, collect, and report that data we actually did exercise our transitional authority to give states an extra year to build the accounting infrastructure really, to be able to, to comply with that part of the law, but it's a really important part.

And, again, I'm sensitive to the challenges here, but it's a great opportunity, in terms of ensuring that everyone—education leaders, parents, other stakeholders—have a sense of where are resources being allocated, where are they being spent, what are they being spent on, and that's really important for equity. We know that without that information, you know, it's possible and I'm not saying anyone has bad intentions here, but it's always possible that more money is being spent on some students than others and not always where more money is needed. And so, this is an opportunity to shine a light on that and to make sure that everyone has the information they need to make the best decisions, to ensure that everyone is, every student is receiving an equitable, high-quality education.

So, this is an area where I think your members in your organization are going to be very much needed. Again, we've heard from state local education leaders this is just not the way that accounting has been done up until now. It requires kind of a level of sophistication and customization, uh, when it comes to accounting, when it comes to school finance, that many places just haven't had in place before. We wanna be helpful at the Department, but certainly your members, your organization, can help states and districts think about this and build the structures they need, first of all, to, to comply with the, the requirement in the law, but even more importantly then to use the information to get resources where they're most needed, and ultimately, of course, to lead students to achieve at higher levels.

John Musso: Yeah, when you say that's a challenge, Jason, that's certainly an understatement. Um—

Jason Botel: (Laughs.)

John Musso: I think in my 35+ years in education we've been working on the per-pupil expenditure and trying to equate it appropriately across everybody. And a lot of it's objective, some of it's subjective, of course. At the final end of the day, the accounting systems only know what we people put into 'em. Sometimes what I consider to be appropriately classified someone else doesn't, so this is a huge task, so if we can accomplish that—

Jason Botel: Well I, I know we can. It's a great point that you raise and I should be clear, the, the law does not require that this is done the same way across the country, it just requires that every state reports that per-pupil expenditure for each school in the state. So, I think what, what we've heard is that there are states where there's some uniformity about how that's done across the state, but there are many states where there isn't, where in fact different LEAs may approach it differently. And it gets to exactly the point you just made, this is a time when I think states are gonna have to really look at how do they work with the LEAs to provide at least enough uniformity that the information is meaningful across the LEAs, but I hear you. It's going to be— (Laughs.)

John Musso: (Laughs.)

Jason Botel: —quite a challenge and we're, we're committed to working, you know, with you and your members and LEAs in states across the country to help make that happen, um, but we appreciate how hard, uh, everybody will be working to do that.

John Musso: As you know, uh, we stand ready to help you and our members at any way that we can. So, you know where we live and, and how to get ahold of us, so certainly, uh, please don't hesitate. Do you have anything else to add for, uh, our members or listeners that, uh, would help them along the way?

Jason Botel: I do just want to reiterate that we think the work you do, your members do, is so, so important. It, it’s just absolutely critical. Obviously, students need resources to, to achieve at high levels and those resources get disbursed, uh, because of the hard work that, that your folks, uh, your members and your organization and others do. So, I just want to thank you for your leadership and really give a big thanks to, to everybody who pitches in to try to get a great education to every child in the country.

John Musso: Well, Jason, thank you so very much for taking time out of your busy schedule. You've been listening to ASBO Radio. I'm John Musso, thank you for listening.
 
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